This is the text of a letter submitted to Trout and salmon in December 2009 but which was not published.
WITH THE SEASON NOW FINALLY ENDED MUCH TO THE RELIEF OF ALMOST EVERYONE INVOLVED ( MANY PEOPLE ARE CALLING IT THE WORST IN LIVING MEMORY) I FEEL IT IS AN OPPORTUNE MOMENT TO RAISE A FEW PERTINENT POINTS.... HOW CAN THE TWEED COMMISSIONERS CONTINUE TO FOCUS SO MUCH OF THEIR PUBLICITY SIMPLY ON NUMBERS OF SALMON CAUGHT (RATHER ON THEIR SIZE AND CONDITION) DOES A CONFLICT OF INTEREST NOT EXIST WHEN SO MANY COMMISIONERS ARE ALSO PROPRIETORS?
CURRENT CATCH LEVELS ARE MAINLY A FUNCTION OF THE MASSIVELY INCREASED FISHING PRESSURE OF RECENT YEARS (INCREASED NUMBERS OF RODS PER BEAT IE TILLMOUTH, SUMMER LETS, BOATMEN FISHING OUT OF HOURS OFTEN WITH RAPALAS ETC).
ONE PRIME BEAT IN OCTOBER ALMOST UNBELIEVABLY HAD AN AVERAGE WEIGHT OF ONLY FOUR AND A HALF POUNDS.THIS ALSO INCLUDED A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF COLOURED FISH.
ARE ANGLERS GOING TO KEEP PAYING THE CURRENT RENTS (£1000+ PER DAY PER ROD) THAT MANY OF THE MOST COMMERCIALISED BEATS NOW CHARGE AT PEAK TIMES? THERE ARE SEVERAL HONORABLE EXCEPTIONS.
THIS IS BEFORE ONE EVEN FACTORS IN THE AMOUNT OF DAYS LOST TO FLOODS AND BROWN WATER WHICH RESULT FROM TWEED'S MODERN DAY HYDROLOGY.THE OLD BOOKS TALK OF TWEED RUNNING HIGH AND CLEAR FOR WEEKS ON END NOT ANY MORE!
ONCE UPON A TIME THE PRECIPITATION SEEPED THROUGH THE GROUND AND THEN INTO THE RIVER NOW EVERY DRAIN ,PIPE AND CULVERT CONTRIBUTE TO LOST FISHING.IT IS NOW VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A FULL WEEK WITH GOOD FISHING CONDITIONS.
CURRENTLY TWEED IS SOMEWHERE IN THE ORDER OF THREE TIMES THE PRICE OF EQUIVALENT FISHING ON THE OTHER "BIG FOUR" RIVERS.HOW WILL THESE RENTS PLAY OUT WHEN FURTHER CATCH AND RELEASE RESTRICTIONS ARE IMPOSED WHICH IS A REAL POSSIBILITY?
THE OPERATION OF THE FISHPAL/TWEEDLINE WEBSITE WHEN STARTED WAS CERTAINLY SEEN AS A VERY USEFUL REFERENCE REGARDING RIVER LEVELS FISHING AVAILABILITY ETC.
IT HAS NOW EVOVED INTO LITTLE MORE THAN A PLATFORM TO JUSTIFY THE EVER INCREASING RENTS OF THE MORE RAPACIOUS PROPRIETORS.
AT WHAT POINT DID THE DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN SALMON AND GRILSE END SO THAT ANY FISH CAUGHT IS NOW COUNTED.
IT IS ALSO COMMON KNOWLEDGE ON THE RIVER THAT THE NUMBERS POSTED INCLUDE PHANTOM FISH EITHER TO JUSTIFY KILLING SPRINGERS OR TO HELP MAINTAIN THE CAPITAL VALUES OF BEATS(AND OF COURSE THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME FISHERS PRONE TO EXAGGERATING THEIR CATCHES!).
THERE WILL ALSO BE A NUMBER OF FISH THAT ARE COUNTED MORE THAN ONCE DUE TO CATCH AND RELEASE AND A NUMBER OF "SPRINGERS" THAT WOULD ON CLOSER EXAMINATION ACTUALLY BE KELTS.
SURELY SOME SORT OF INFORMATION REGARDING AVERAGE SIZE OF FISH REPORTED WOULD BE MORE ILLUMINATING THAN THE PRACTICE OF LISTING THE BIGGEST DAILY FISH WHICH HIDES THE FACT THAT MOST OF THE OTHER FISH RECORDED ARE VERY MUCH SMALLER.
WAS IT WISE THAT THE COMMISSION USED SO MUCH PRECIOUS POLITICAL CAPITAL ON THE ISSUE OF BEAVER INTRODUCTION WHICH WITH THE VAST COSTS INVOLVED IS UNLIKELY TO GO VERY FAR? MY SOURCES TELL ME THIS HAS CREATED LOTS OF ILL WILL WITH VARIOUS AUTHORITIES.
IT IS NOT NEARLY AS IMMEDIATE A PROBLEM AS THE VAST PREDATION CURRENTLY TAKING PLACE ON SMOLT S AND PARR FROM THE SAW BILLED DUCKS AND CORMORANTS.FOR THE TWEED FOUNDATIONS CHIEF SCIENTIST TO QOUTE A FIGURE RECENTLY OF MERLEY 500 OF THESE PREDATORS ON THE RIVER IS TO SAY THE LEAST ALARMING AND DOES NOT EXACTLY INSPIRE CONFIDENCE ON A WIDER FRONT!
IF AS WE ARE CONSTANTLY TOLD( WHENEVER THE SUBJECT OF A HATCHERY IS RAISED) THERE IS A SUFFICIENT STOCK OF PARR AND SMOLTS WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE VAST SMOLT RUNS OF YESTERYEAR?
STORIES ADMITTEDLY ANECDOTAL ( ALTHOUGH SEVERAL CURRENT BOATMEN WILL CONFIRM) OF YOUNG BOYS CATCHING A SMOLT EVERY CAST ON SMALL MEPPS IN THE TIDAL REACHES DURING THIS MIGRATION SIMPLY DO NOT HAPPEN TODAY.
THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT HAVE RECENTLY ALLOWED GENERAL LICENSES FOR BUZZARDS HOW ABOUT LOBBYING FOR MORE PREDATOR CONTROL CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY GENERATED BY ANGLERS SURELY THERE IS A POWERFUL CASE TO MAKE?
FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO QUOTE VERBATIM FROM A DOCUMENT SENT BY THOSE IN CHARGE TO THE MANAGEMENT ON THE TAY:
"MORE THAN 90 OUT OF EVERY 100 AUTUMN FISH ENTERING THE RIVER ARE NOT CAUGHT BY ANGLERS! TRYING TO INCREASE CATCHES BY INCREASING THE NUMBER OF FISH ENTERING THE RIVER BY ARTIFICIAL STOCKING IS POINTLESS IN SUCH A SITUATION--A MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE WAY OF INCREASING CATCHES WOULD BE FOR ANGLERS TO IMPROVE THEIR SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE AND SO CATCH A HIGHER PROPORTION OF THE FISH THAT ARE ALREADY THERE..............A SAD INSIGHT INTO THE MINDSET OF THOSE IN CHARGE OF TWEED!
68 comments:
Some interesting points, At what size/weight does a Salmon become a grilse and how do you tell the difference on the river bank? I don't think I could tell.
Dear Grant,
I think we would both be kidding ourselves if I believed and you were being totally honest when you say you don't know the difference between a salmon and a grilse.
Turning it round, If you don't know the difference why claim something is a salmon when you now full well it might be a grilse as FishTweed used to do? It was a lie to record everything as salmon and misleading now.
I accept that most will not do a quick scale reading on the bank to see whether a fish is a one or a two+ sea winter fish.
The Commissioners used to use weight and in the context of the assessment on the nets the line used to be 7 lbs (I think). & lbs or over a salmon under a grilse.
At Lennel we took a lot of small fish in the back end last year ie 1 lbs to 5/6 lbs. Are you saying they would be salmon? A 1 lb fish which has spent two or more years at sea?
I once tried to buy a Grilse in a fishmongers in Berwick but no matter what the size it was all Salmon, you couldn't but a Grilse It was all priced as Salmon. So it happens on the street as well
Dear Grant,
I am scratching my head. In your last but one post you said you did not think you could tell the difference between a grilse and a salmon.
Why go all the way to Berwick to buy a grilse if you can't tell the difference?
I was told that Grilse were cheaper and wanted a whole fish not too big for a dinner but at the well known fishmonger (now closed) I found that they only sell Salmon no matter what the size at the Salmon price, yet I'm told that they would buy the Grilse for a lesser price from the netsmen. Anyway off for 4 day trip on a nice middle Tay beat I'll see what the opinion is there.
Well the opinion on the Tay is that the Tweed is the best run river in the country and the Tay is trying to follow what they are doing on Tweed so the Ghillies I met told me! They told me that they have a hatchery on the Tay and the catches have gone down so that's not much good is it? How do you breed Spring fish in a hatchery, or how do you breed big fish? Do you source your eggs from the wild stocks in the river which is not a good thing to do I would think. On Smolts being scarce I was watching a trout fisher today on the Tweed and he stopped fishing as he was fed up taking smolts off the hooks he was fishing two flies barbless I was pleased to see and every cast was a smolt sometimes two so plenty smolts today in the Tweed
Grant, are you sure they weren't grilse he was catching two at a time? Can you tell the difference?
Dear Grant,
I smell a rat too.
Unlike the Tweed the Tay has an independent Ghillies Association.
An independent association is overdue on the Tweed.
The Tay Association supports hatcheries and the present hatchery at Almond Bank is being extended with their support.
As fas as your genetic/size question is concerned, have a word with John Gibb after looking a the Lochy web site. There is a list of 30 lb fish.
Dear Grant,
It might also help if you had a word with your colleague, Dr Campbell. He is going to a hatchery workshop in Dunkeld this week.
Mind you, anyone who can see Mayfly on the Tweed at all (his blog 15.4.2010) never mind mid April will also be able to see crocodile in the Leet never mind parr in the Tweed.
Dear Grant,
I know you already know all this but for those that don't here is a bit about the Lochy:
To make it easy, I have picked out some of the big fish taken on the Lochy in the last three seasons. In those years the overall catch was a fraction of that in the Tweed.
I have also reproduced some of the information about the hatchery operation.
36 lbs July 2007 Tailrace Beat, Paul McHugh, (fresh sea-liced fish)
34lbs Oct 2008 Pile Stream, Jim Coates
33lbs Oct 2008, Croy Pool, Jim Gorski and 32lbs Croy Pool both on same day
32lbs Oct 2008 Croy Pool, Colin Nice
32lbs July 2009 Tailrace, Sandy Walker
30lbs Oct 2008 Garrabouie Stream, Mrs Hazard
Utilising the Lochy’s superb wild restoration hatchery near Glenfinnan and assisted by the local fish-farm company Marine Harvest, Jon and his team now operate the largest indigenous smolt rearing operations in the country.
Smolt Rearing
They aim to rear and release up to 200,000 smolts annually over the coming years and stock them out in targeted locations throughout the catchment in the spring just prior to seaward migration. They also plan to treat these smolts with sea lice medicine which has been shown to treble the smolt survival rate.
The hatchery also produces fish for 9 other rivers, having pioneered special sea trout and salmon ‘captive broodstock’ programmes for key endangered rivers. Two other smolt programmes are also being set up currently for other rivers in the region.
Predators
All predators — particularly seals, goosanders, rainbow trout, mink and, of course, poachers — can all have a severe impact on numbers of returning fish and the team are constantly vigilant for these threats. A full range of licences are held to control these predators and at least 5 warranted bailiffs patrol the catchment 24hrs to protect against poaching.
Mr Campbell is not a colleague of mine don't know what gave you that Idea. Nice fish from the Lochy were they proven hatchery fish? How many 30lbers were taken in the years before a hatchery was set up as a percentage of fish taken? I think the may fly that are being talked about are March Browns which are part of the May fly family I presume. I Have to say I've never seen a croc in the Leet yet, but I've seen loads of smolts today again.
Dear Grant,
We seem to be dancing from topic to topic in an out of control quickstep.
Are you now prepared to accept that whatever you say you were told on the Tay seems to be out of step with reality? The Tay Ghillies' Association supports and is extending it's hatchery. Is that not the diametrical opposite of the Tweed approach?
I have given you the Lochy details, you ask them the questions.
I think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding here. I have no idea whether a hatchery is the answer. What annoys me is the dictat from Drygrange. The ten reasons (of which nine are nonsense) why we are not having a hatchery before we have the management information to make a decision.
And what really annoys me is that we appear to be doing nothing to establish the genetic facts although we now have it in our power to do so.
It is a bit sad if the Foundation's chief biologist thinks a March Brown is a Mayfly.
Of course the real point is that although Dr Campbell reported that he had seen a good hatch he also reported that nothing was rising to them.
That is our experience. Some fantastic hatches of March Browns but nothing rising.
So tell us how you came across all these smolts. If there are so many why are they not taking these yummy March Browns?
A trout fisherman was catching all the smolts until he got fed up with them there were so many he couldn't get near the trout so he gave up, the smolts were not feeding on the March Browns as the hatch of March Browns finished before the smolts started to appear. Next year try fishing a nymph when the hatch is on I think you will find the Trout then. If someone could guarantee to breed Springers in a hatchery I would think a lot of people would jump at the chance, but I don't think that anyone can guarantee that. Also I thought that Marine harvest were seen in a bad light what with all the rivers on the west coast having such a bad time with the sea lice from the Salmon farms
The point I was putting forward was the Tay ghillies I spoke to were saying that they have a hatchery on the Tay and their catches have still gone down, mind you nobody could say what percentage of fish caught on the Tay were from the hatchery I dare say it will be printed somewhere. Loads of Smolts going down again today and I never saw a Goosander.
So, Tweedlover and other contributors believe that the Tweed is in crisis; Grant disagrees. What do the RTC think? And how can we find out? And if there is a crisis, what are we going to do about it? Debate is fun, but if any of Tweedlover's concerns are real then is there not a hint of fiddling while Rome burns? We (fishermen who are lucky enough to have access to the Tweed) need to know precisely what the problems are, how we can solve them, and how we can motivate others to help solve them.
Dear Grant,
What you actually said was this: "Well the opinion on the Tay is that the Tweed is the best run river in the country and the Tay is trying to follow what they are doing on Tweed so the Ghillies I met told me!"
What the Tay Ghillies are actually doing is the opposite of the Tweed's main policy ie extending the existing Tay hatchery.
So if having a hatchery is the exact opposite of what the best run river in the country is intending which other bits are the Tay people trying to follow?
Non rising smolts, Tweed mayfly in April or invisible cormorants?
Or perhaps flying pork pies singing "you put the first one back you take the next one out" to the tune of the Hokey Cokey?
So what do you recommend kill every one you catch or total catch and release? Lets see if we have something in common
Dear Grant,
No, before we move on please back up your assertion that management on the Tay are attempting to emulate our very own Tweed head office.
Tell us all about it, I am hanging on your every word.
Flattery gets you nowhere! I didn't management, I was quoting the Ghillies I was talking to, they didn't say that the Tay was wrong either it was their opinion and we are all allowed an opinion that's what this blog is for is it not. So back to the question what would you do? Kill all the fish you catch or total catch and release. Option one brings up the problem of killing a Salmon that came in to the river in February and is caught in August black as a Cormorants armpit so nobody would want to keep that surely? Perhaps total catch and release up till the end of August, or maybe just kill all fish under 8lb say and return the rest working on the assumption that big fish breed big fish and maybe that's why we are getting lots of small fish. As we know as soon as someone get a big/huge fish they kill it reducing the gene pool would it not
Dear Grant,
So many generalities, where to begin. A bedtime story.
Once upon a time when the big autumn fish didn't seem quite so common someone had the bright idea of making sure all the big hens went back It was not that bright was it? The big males were just as important.
Then as fish became scarcer we started to return ALL the females and in the main it was the small cock fish that bought it.
But that is not very bright either is it because you need both boys and girls to produce babies – well at least in the river that is the case - and you then start to wonder whether we are stressing the male population, are there enough to go round?
I ask that question against this background: salmon within the system appear to exist as families. There might be plenty in one family but not many in another.
Now if certain areas of the catchment produce springers it is also possible that other areas produce grilse or bigger autumn fish. I might be hallucinating but bear with me.
We just do not know just as hitherto the scientists didn't know which areas of the sea fish migrated to. Some of these little grilse/hybrids surely have not gone far. It would also seem logical that the further a fish goes the longer it will be at sea the bigger it will become.
My cranky theory is that certain families are genetically programmed to go to different areas of the sea.
So what do you kill?
I would like someone to tell me why we are not sampling every single fish caught on the river. Why we are not working out how the genetics of the fish families work? Pitlochry told me it was coming to the Tweed this year. Another season is part way through and nothing.
We have it in our power to bottom what is going on but nothing is happening except a tuppenny halfpenny experiment with acoustic tags.
Will someone not come forward and explain to a simple fisherman what we could do, how much it would cost and how long it would take?
And what's more if that fish you saw today was one of the last from its genetic group how can we help it? Answer: hatchery. Plan in case it is needed.
Good God! We are almost agreeing on some points, but lets not get carried away two soon. There have been scale samples taken for years on 7 beats 20 years in fact, Last year some of the beats were taking DNA samples from fish of all sizes by cutting off a wee bit of the adipose fin, this year from the first of February DNA samples are being taken from all fish caught on certain beats by way of scraping a few scales off and popping them into a little bottle of alcohol to preserve them(you should persuade your beat to join in)so things are happening on that front. I thought you would of read it on the Foundation website that's where I found it, its full of interesting facts about the Tweed over the years.
Dear Grant,
I hoped to have shaken you off for the weekend. Got to travel north to see you.
"Scale samples taken over twenty years" is absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making.
Some beats have been taking samples since the 1st of February have they? Really? And what are we going to learn from that?
You have skated past the hatchery if needs be point or when you said we might be agreeing about some things can I take it that that is a point about which we agree?
Are we now agreeing that my estimate of a 20% re-capture rate is fair?
Dear Grant,
I am now late. Irritated by another one of your sweeping statements I tapped DNA into the Foundation's website.
I think you are getting carried away about what is going on sampling wise or the available information because this is all I found:
"Monday 7th July 2008: A meeting at the Freshwater Fisheries Laboratory, Faskally, to discuss the sampling strategy for the salmon genetics survey this summer. There needs to be tissue taken from 50 fish at each site and as each costs £20 to analyse the DNA, a site costs £1000 in all. A big catchment like the Tweed will need a lot of sites to cover it, so the sampling strategy has to be as cost effective as possible."
Perhaps you know more than you are prepared to admit or enjoy the services of Mystic Meg because at first blush your assertion that I can find out what is going on from the Foundation seems a tad short on substance.
The interesting thing is that £1,000.00 is obviously a serious bit of expenditure for the Foundation.
Never mind the people who make a living from or on the river, the fact it brings in (?) 20 million to the borders, we are going to have to be careful about that grand.
Of course it would not matter if it was needed for a Wheelyboat. Your lot can raise £100,000.00 for boats you do not need but we seem incapable of finding the money for the river.
No seriously its going on the DNA sampling, look just ask the Tweed foundation if your beat can take part in it your certainly keen enough.
Dear Grant,
Mystic Meg would definitely be required, the people at the Foundation don't speak to people like me.
Going to be sleeping in the car at this rate, cheerio.
Dear Grant,
Smolts. Last Sunday I was talking to three Kelso Association members who said (I think they were talking about the Teviot) that there were loads of smolts around. Lots.
Last year I was being told in my area that they were not being picked up by the trout fishers and one of our lot (mad keen does a minimum of five days a month salmon fishing) that it was the first time he had been through the whole season without heaving a single parr through the air on a backcast.
A committee member at Coldstream told me three weeks ago that there were plenty of smolts around, just like you.
Today I spoke to the three who were working at our place. They are hugely experienced. One said that on Friday morning there was the biggest hatch he had ever seen but nothing was rising and in the afternoon ditto although the hatch was not quite so big.
One was adamant that whilst wading he had not moved anything. Another said that the trout fishermen were telling him they were not picking up parr.
It has been an odd season, high water and low temperatures.
All I can add is my own experience. I saw two rises this morning that might have been parr in the slack behind the Tillmouth boat. I saw one rise in midstream which I guess was a small trout. Nothing else and whilst wading I moved nothing.
The bit I was in would not in my experience have been smolt/parr water.
I make that point because this afternoon I had a debate with one of our neighbours opposite who said I was talking rubbish. He said it was alive with parr/smolts. Full of them. He said the day before when our lot had seen nothing fish were queuing in the same slack water in which I had seen two tiny rises. He pointed to the herons on the slap working what he said were parr/smolts.
He was talking of the river directly opposite where I had just been fishing.
Tell me where the answer to all this lies? What are the facts? Then tell me what it has to do with my argument. I am asking this question: if there are so many smolts/parr in the river why are 80% of our fish caught between the end of August and the end of October? If there are so many parr why are the springers failing?
Dear Grant,
My grammar is getting worse. When I said I had been told there were plenty of smolts like you I meant he, like you, said there were plenty of smolts around not that you were like a smolt. Sorry.
I agree that during some of the massive hatches in the last few weeks very little has been taking them apart from the Smolts not a lot of large Trout about it would seem I think I will wait till late May into June until I'll say there are no big trout as I've often seen the river come alive once it warms up in the evenings. On the subject of Parr in the streams I have been on an electo fishing day up some of the streams and I can only say what I saw with my own eyes that there were fry and Parr all over the place in some spots too many to count. If the back end fish are thriving and in the last few years catches have been going up ( not last year albeit) why are Spring fish numbers going down? If we agree that there are plenty Fry/Parr and I've seen them when electro fishing then the problem must be at sea but then why does the problem only affect the Spring stocks, do they feed in different areas of the ocean? If food was a problem then surely the ones that made it back would be thin and out of condition but the Springers are getting bigger and the back end fish getting smaller, removing the nets drift and in river nets certainly let a lot of fish into the system that a few years ago would not of made it so most beats are bound to catch more fish but unfortunately they are going to be smaller, what's the answer to that one ? Put the nets back on? I don't think that anyone could guarantee to breed Springers its was tried on Tweed in the early 80s taking fish out of the Ettrick and over to Keilder for stripping the only offspring that made it back were caught as Grilse in the nets, and I don't think taking stock from the wild is a great idea. I wonder what the return rate is from the Tay hatchery and what do they come back as? I'll ask the Ghillies I know up there and get back to you.
Dear Grant,
Thank you.
Forget what you have been told - all this received wisdom.
It is perfectly conceivable that our springer bred parr are coming back as grilse.
Hen springer fertilised by autumn male. What do you get? And vice versa? Cock springer with autumn female?
What if the key is at sea? If a smolt is genetically programmed to go to area X in the sea, it arrives and because the feeding in area X is poor it comes back early? That big fish goes to area Y finds a full larder and stays for two winter holidays?
These may be very innocent questions but no dafter than the RTC's bald assertion that the river is full of parr.
My essential point is this: we now have it in our hands to make big inroads into these questions. If the RTC/Foundation behave like a banana republic and will not engage as to what could be done and the cost (given that this type of research is time consuming and expensive) the more people I can turn grumpy the better.
I hope I am wrong but the general trend appears to be down. In five years it might be too late to get organised, for example with hatcheries. By that time the money might no longer be in the river and the will to do anything about it might have disappeared.
Are we talking Spring fish here or the whole season? Catches have been increasing apart from last year, the fish getting smaller is a puzzle in the Autumn and not what we are use to on Tweed but it seems it is a long term trend. On the Tay we don't know if the hatchery is working as they stock with eyed ova so none of them are tagged/marked so no telling if any make it back as Springers or at all for that matter which is great pity as that could of been a benchmark to work on, So I'm afraid no hard evidence there, only going on what I read on the Tay website so don't quote me on that one.
Dear Grant,
I have put up a new photograph.
What is that fish and what has caused the damage?
It was the 2lb fish caught on Saturday. 2lbs might have been a compliment.
It was bright but had no sea lice. The scales did not come away. The tail is concave and there are spots below the lateral.
Could you move the writing and a bit closer ? Was the wound fresh/blood or old healing and a 2 lber? The tail says Salmon and the amount of spots on the gill cover says Salmon,the maxillary bone looks like its in line with the eye so it all points to a Salmon The wound is too far away to see some sort of puncture? Saw one the same as this a couple of years ago, might of been its friends that were in your Slap on Sunday but it is small for time of year, an early Grilse? You will have to send some scales to your friend Mr Campbell at the foundation to get them read if you took any that would settle it.
5 points:
(a)I fished the tay last year. The ghillie bemoaned the state of that river. I spoke up for the Tweed. I was told not to talk rubbish. If I had that sort of money, he said, I should go to Iceland or Russia.
(b)don't worry about nothing rising to recent hatches. The same is happening on my local river which I know to be full of trout. The fact is the water is still very cold and the fish are too sluggish to chase hatching flies.
(c)looks like a small salmon (?grilse) to me. It would help to have the picture centred, but although small it seems well proportioned and apparently healthy. I agree with Grant that it would have been intereting to get a scale reading. Why didn't you take samples? If you don't do things like that, how can you criticise?
(d)when you went electro fishing, Grant, what coarse fish did you encounter and in what numbers?
(e)I feel like I've been exiled to my own page. Where are you boys?
Dear Grant, Dear Beachcaster,
I am afraid that I am more radical than either of you. What the Tweed needs is a sweeping review – it's time for change. This blog exists to put pressure on the RTC/Foundation.
Your last comments have made my case. Thank you.
Coarse fish. Whilst being lectured on Saturday I was told that after a recent flood they had found a bankside pool in which fish had been stranded. They included roach and a five pound pike.
I know we have gudgeon. Our neighbours spin a lot. When did they last catch a pike? I asked a local (40 year service Ghillie) last night and he said he could not remember a pike for 20-30 years.
Roach. Coldstream used to sell days tickets for the stretch between the Leet and Coldstream Bridge. The roach/dace fishers went year ago. You would think we would see coarse fish rising in the slack above the bridge and coarse fishers fishing for them if they were there.
I was amazed by what I was told on Saturday. What is the truth? I know that 50 years ago when the salmon were steaming through all season long there were lots of big fat roach.
Fish Tweed. We had two Friday (three rods) and that tiny fish on Saturday. Less than half a day fished Saturday. Grant saw all these fish (did he say 13?). Harry had one of 17lbs at Cornhill and two at Tweedmill the next day – lost a third.
So now the river is dropping in we are starting to see fish. Where are the fishermen?
Our neighbours are now managed by my friend Mr Leeming. No rods on Saturday. None yesterday. Six boatmen idle. Marketing strategy? Prices have gone up. Five years (?) ago it was fully let by Sale and Partners using a completely different model. Is FishTweed working for you?
I sat at the AGM with jaw on floor listening to the Chairman of the RTC and of the Foundation whilst he described the steps he was personally taking to replace FishTweed with his very own Frankenstein.
The little fish. It was a little fish. A tiny fish in early May. The poor little thing had stripe marks and a healed stab/beak wound. Scale check no. Genetic analysis yes. Where did it come from? Where did it feed in the sea?
Grant, neither of us know the pluses and minuses of a hatchery as you effectively concede in your comment about the Tay.
The bigger picture is this: we have it in our hands to organise a real programme of genetic sampling up and down the river, we could make a real start even without paying the cost of analysis. We could then see what was going on. We could then make proper decisions
We are fiddling. We need leadership. The introduction of catch and release has been inept and in practical terms, useless. Time is flying by.
Hello Beachcaster The electro fishing I attended was on the Teviot and the Kale water, no coarse fish apart from Eels and minnows but we were far up the Kale and I wouldn't expect to see any up there. As for Pike at Coldstream who would want them in the river not me. I can well remember the shoals of Roach and Dace above the bridge and 50/60 fishers from the north east packed onto the banks catching them, I can also remember the same clubs from the north east netting them out form the English side and putting them into tanks and away they went to stock their own waters, I was there giving them a hand along with the Head boatman at the time from Lennel, it was good pocket money at the time.Just remembered that there was a report in the local paper about a man getting a 12.5lb Pike above the bridge it was in the 75 years ago section so it must of been quite an event then to merit a mention it was in the Berwickshire news two weeks ago. I like the idea of more genetic research just need to find the money to fund it.
Dear Grant,
I also noticed that Kelso AA are still offering coarse fishing.
Twelve years ago someone who looked like me (but it was only a coincidence you understand) took a couple of pints of maggots and a float rod down Dripping Rock but despite all efforts my doppleganger only caught one small trout.
Genetic research. I think you are misunderstanding what is going on as far as the sampling is concerned.
Will be writing to Dr Campbell to ask him some questions.
Do we want coarse fish in the Tweed? I think not, more competition for the food, and they don't belong in the Tweed somebody introduced them in my view a bad idea. Ask Salmon fishers from the Wye (and that's a river in trouble)what they think of coarse fishers, I've not had a go at the Trout yet to cold but when I do I'll let you know how I get on.
Introduced coarse fish, bad idea. Indigenous coarse fish, good idea. Absence of indigenous coarse fish may indicate poor in-river environment; or the sort of antediluvian attitude displayed by Grant. Why wouldn't you want pike or roach in the river if they belong there? I have no idea how long ago you were netting them out with the Lennel boatman but I would guess it was many years ago and at a time when the salmon population was not in such dire straits as it is today. It may even have been as long ago as the days when intellectual pygmies believed that grayling should be persecuted for eating salmon eggs.
I doubt that there is any evidence to show that a healthy population of indigenous coarse fish is detrimental to the salmonids within any given river system. If there is then we can expect all those nasty roach, dace, chub perch etc to be hoiked unceremoniously from our chalk streams in double quick time to preserve the waters for the more deserving fly fishers.
In order to ensure the survival of as many smolts as possible we must ensure that the in river environment is in A1 condition. That means that there should be healthy populations of all indigenous flora and fauna (that's plants and animals to you, Grant) whether you happen to like them or not. And forget at your peril that the river is not only for the benefit of those who can afford to cast a fly upon its waters. To quote our dear departed former leader "Get real, Grant!". And so to bed...
My guess is that the netting of the (fabulous) coarse fish took place between 1960 and 1965 at a time when both rod and net fishing for salmon were in full swing.
Is the lack of diversity associated with a water quality problem in the Tweed?
Locally, the Goyt is flourishing. An industrial sewer reclaimed and now full of trout, grayling and coarse fish.
Salmon numbers are increasing. Apparently, one of the clubs at the Mersey end has in its match rules "salmon not to be weighed in as part of catch".
Interestingly there is hardly a square inch of arable farming along the valley. Scenery not always brilliant. River fine.
If you stand on the new road bridge over the Test at Leckford and look down and to the right there is a big shoal of big roach.
That shoal is the Keeper's barometer of the health of the river.
Water quality and diversity do not seem to be issues as far as our leaders are concerned.
Regarding the coarse fish above Coldstream Bridge, they were certainly there in my school days in the 1950's. I can remember the bailifs netting them and leaving heaps of rotten carcases just below Jacobs Well. Also the corpse of a small pike just upstream of the Bridge. Later as others have said a tanker lorry took netted roach away for stocking coarse fisheries.
Well they were there and now their not, they couldn't all of been netted out from Kelso to Norham so why didn't the population recover on its own? It can't be water quality as I can remember raw sewage running in from several pipes round Coldstream the river white at times, so at least the river is cleaner now. I think Graying are fine in Tweed but even Grayling were introduced in the 1800s but at least they are a member of the Salmon/ Trout family and any more species I can live without, next thing we will have Zander and Catfish maybe even a Piranha, but I think we maybe have a couple of them already. I do love healthy debate!
Dear Grant,
In a downpour the upper system in Coldstream sometimes cannot cope which leads to some interesting fishing especially if you get a take from a sanitary towel or a condom.
ie we still have raw sewage.
Of course today we have dishwasher phosphates, progesterone, detergents etc etc in the mix.
Not like the bad old days when the Tweed at kelso ran red with the blood from the abattoir and the river was stuffed with trout and salmon. Or the bad bad old days when you could walk across the river on the backs of salmon but there was no sewage treatment at all.
What are your boys and girls at the RTC/Foundation doing about any of it?
But its not raw sewage everyday and all day, only once in a while and this was raw sewage from every town, so the Tweed is cleaner now, and lets not forget the farmers pouring the sheep dip onto the ground once they were finished with it.I know what water I would rather swim in. I think you should be directing your water quality issues to SEPA. On the subject of catch and release it seems to be OK to catch as many Roach and dace as is possible pop them into keep nets for the day then return them to the river to be caught again the next day by the next lot of anglers, but we don't want the Salmon to be caught again it seems, I thought fish welfare was paramount on this blog seems not if your a coarse fish
Dear Grant,
You are quite right it is a different kind of pollution today. That is why there is a band of bleached stone on the wall of a reservoir used down here by a local trout club. It is bleached by chemicals to a depth of two feet. They can see the springs which bring the chemicals, those below the farm buildings.
That is why under the sewage outlets on the river the stones are clean. Bleach, dishwasher powder. How many tons of domestic dishwasher phosphates enter the Tweed annually?
Then there are the farmers. Yetholm Loch use to be clear. We used to catch big perch with minnows when we were kids, and I mean big. Last time I went three years ago there was a massive and disgusting silage dump on the far bank and the water was pea green. Of course it had nothing to do with the silage. Where does that water eventually end up? In the Tweed.
The RTC have a statutory duty to protect the fish stocks but lets pass the buck to SEPA every time.
Anyway, don't mention farmers. I wonder how many arable acres in the Tweed valley are owned by your commissioner pals? The proprietors? How many thousands of tons of nitrates? How many millions of gallons of abstracted water when the river is at its lowest? No conflict of interest of course.
You are also quite right in a sense to compare catch and return with the retention of coarse fish in a keep net. That is why the catch and returners are playing straight into the hands of the antis.
In practical terms, however, there is a difference. Every time a spring fish is caught you reduce its chances of survival. If they are critically precious why are you fishing for them at all? Be straight: why are you fishing for them if they are endangered?
OK so you would stop fishing in the Spring full stop! So when do you start again remembering that some of these Springers will still be in the main stem of the river in Aug/Sept and as you point out loads of them will be caught again. What going to happen to the Ghillies/Boatmen? Paid off? Or your other option Kill every fish you catch that will do the river the power of good, what about all the coloured fish that are caught that are no good for anything apart from spawning,Kill them? Kelts kill them? Not having that one! Educate the anglers to treat the fish with care and handle them carefully they survive! Dead fish don't spawn I keep telling you I'm not from the foundation just like to see both sides of an argument being aired, and its a good job I'm talking to you or you would be a bit lonely on this site.
Dear Grant,
Thank you. Judging by the number of 'phone calls and looking at the site meter I don't think we are playing to an empty house.
There are strong rumours that weeks have been available in October 2010 on three of the river's biggest beats. If true that waiting lists are disappearing there will soon be price adjustments all round.
Looking at the (lack of) success of FishTweed this last two years I would be amazed if the big boys did not start to catch a cold. I will be interested to see how your colleague Oracle gets on with the 2010 auction.
When total catch and release arrives you will end up competing with the Dee for the pool of Scandinavian fishermen. Dee rents are a fraction of those on the Tweed.
You are therefore quite, right, jobs are going to be put at risk if we carry on like this.
At our place wages are the biggest overhead followed by the cost of the RTC. Some of our people let to offset the cost against fishing they retain. If both letting and the quality of the fishing continue to slide what do you think will happen in the real world?
Something is going to have to give.
I bet it won't be the cost of the RTC. Some big salary and pension packages up there, judging by the accounts. But I suppose someone has to go on all those jollies and give presentations.
I am a gloomy chap am I not? I think your position is that by going catch and return for eight weeks we will save the lives of what, a hundred fish, and next year the Tweed will be back to its best. There go the musical pork pies again.
So come on! What do you do for next year Catch and release or kill what you catch or stop fishing in the Spring. What one would you have? As you are getting more slippery than Prop Stane Eel !
Just back from a little Jolly with the chaps down in Cuba. Bloody good Fishing, and i say, the natives were friendly. Got stuck into a few nice ones as well(fish that is). reminded me of better times on Tweed- not good and getting worse i would say old boy. I commend you Tweed Lover on giving that woffle spouting Grant a good slapping everytime he puts his head above the parapet- silly bugger keeps coming back for more. I would guess he bats for the other side- nods as good as a wink old boy. Iwould now ignore his antagonistic views of Tweed. Keep up the good work. Your Country/River needs you.
Grant, what's the latest gossip from the Foundation? I am sure you know.
So what's it to be catch and release or kill everything you catch or stop fishing? Whats Tweed lover going to have us all do on Tweed when he takes over as Chairman? You keep pushing option 2 and 3 so what is it?
I don't see why it should be one or the other. Subject to there being evidence of sufficient stocks, fishermen should be permitted to kill no more than their bag limit per season, and to stop abuse of the system there must also be a daily bag limit of 1. All other fish must go back. On top of this having read the legal page of this blog, it seems to me that RTC would be within its rights to shorten the season by knocking off the "fly only" periods in the spring or late autumn. Why have you not responded to such suggestions, Grant? Is it that you are intent on argument for argument's sake? Or is it that your mind is too small to take such matters in? Instead of taking sideswipes at others why don't you tell us what you think? Do you agree that there is a crisis? Do you agree that conservation measures are required? If so, what? If as I suspect, you have no ideas of your own I think we should be told.
I like your tack beachcaster, I just think that there should always be both sides to be seen, I certainly agree that conservation needs to take place and I do think that catch and release is the right way to go, released fish still spawn as long as they are handled with care. Tweed lover is saying that each time a fish is played it lessens its chance of spawning, there might be something in that if a rod plays a fish for too long, but dead fish don't spawn and that's a fact! So it was a simple question for Tweed lover what would he bring in next year, stocks are low so should we keep killing I think not. Stopping fishing too many jobs lost not up for that one. Shorten the season I'll get back to you on that one.
Are you going to get back to us when you have had a word with the Foundation?
Where is the logic in allowing netting to commence on the 1st of June,when rod fishers have to return all fish until the end of June?
Netsmen have to return all Salmon caught but are allowed to keep any Seatrout up to the end of June as far as I know. Sore Bill I've not seen anyone from the foundation for weeks and weeks, have a look at their website you might find out there. Tweed lover option 2 or 3 not a difficult question. I see Tillmouth are getting them but not Lennel whys that?
How do you know Tillmouth are getting them?
Its on Fishtweed website catches page.
If it is on Fish Tweed it must be right then.
Tillmouth fish six. There have been 110 days since the start. I make that 660 rod days. According to your friends at Fish whatever it is they have caught 49 fish.
My maths are pretty poor but is that not .07 fish a rod day?
How much does it cost to fish at Tillmouth? Remind me.
Its got nothing to do with me, the price! But Tillmouth has hardly been fished all Spring until recently so I hear. If its too expensive fish elsewhere plenty water to choose from.
Sore Bill, I make Tillmouth 18 this week up to Friday not bad for the time of year I would think.
Dear Grant,
Circa 50-60 years ago (when the river and coastal nets were also in full swing) Lennel took 120 spring fish from the first pool below Coldstream Bridge – the Long Stream - alone.
Like the RTC/Foundation you are living in la la land if you think that 18 fish from the whole of Tillmouth in one week is a result.
Who caught the Tillmouth fish? The Ghillies? Plenty of choice because FishPal is working against you. Plenty of choice, plenty of Ghillies not working, plenty of Ghillies wondering about their jobs. And so on
Dear Grant,
You obviously have a connection with the RTC/Foundation.
Why don't you copy and show them the two letters which appear in the June issue of Trout and Salmon?
It was a Spring river then, how may did they get in November that year or October? It would be nice to have a big run of Springers as well as back end fish, could the river support both, if so why the swing from Spring to Autumn and why did Springers appear at all. I don't work for the foundation or the rtc but I do have an interest in the river and its well being and have seen the work the foundation have done to improve the spawning areas and the nursery habitat. We have to have somewhere for the fish to Spawn and the young to live that to me is one of the most important things. I look forward to reading the letters in Trout and Salmon as long as they are constructive as I've said before nothing wrong with healthy debate. But I can imagine that its someone having a rant and not putting the brain in gear.
Dear Sore Bill, Tillmouth is a bit pricey for the time of year I agree you could always go and fish at Lennel opposite Tillmouth for £50 per day at Tweed lovers place I see they caught 1 last week against Tillmouth's 18 so £50 is about right but I think you have to pay extra for the Boatman. Tight lines old boy.
Dear Grant,
Wrong again. I assure you that the FishTweed web page is wrong. One rod at Lennel caught three one day last week.
Moral: do not believe anything you see on FishTweed.
Observation: on what evidence was catch and release anounced?
I see you have ducked the question about who caught the fish.
Is there anything alse you would like to add to this discussion about the mis-management of the Tweed or shall we regard the last comment as your swansong?
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